Today on the internetz (readers who want my fluffy-family posts just skip this one; I’ll be in full bucolic-family-life effect in a few hours):
On Free Range Kids a discussion emerges about “stranger danger” being unfairly leveled at all men (which it is). I posted to the effect that yeah, it sucks, but in a blog that is primarily about actively rejecting the harmful effects of mainstream fear culture, perhaps we should support more men committing to proactive action, not just complaining about paranoid women – otherwise they continue in the larger cultural abdication of responsibility for children and child-rearing (deemed: women-only).
Predictably a commentor named Stuart decides to engage primarily with my use of the phrase “nut up or shut up” (which was in poor taste altho’ I note it is used with impunity by men). Stuart asks what would happen if he used sexist langauge toward women (Gee, I wonder what would happen – perhaps we can look in this thread itself and see sexist language levelled at laydeez going entirely unchecked) and then tells me I don’t understand gender-based harassment (ha! hahahahaha!) and implies I ignore sexism in women (nope). But of course Stuart does not put one toe in the water of my charge that it is seriously problematic when men soley blame women for their lack of involvement in the child-village, and perform no other action besides the blameinz (note I am not charging a single individual man of doing so – it’s up to him to self-evaluate here).
Anyone reading here knows, of course, how rubber-meets-the-road my husband is in being one of those men that, you know, actually does speak to other people’s children, waves and smiles at them, picks them up, feeds them, takes them to the park or the bathroom – and doesn’t molest them! (I know! It’s kind of crazy!). So please understand handwringing about how men just can’t do this stuff because of teh wimminz is met with wry cynicism by both of us. For which, here dear reader, I apologize (because truthfully it does suck men get told they’re ALL MOLESTER ASSHOLES). I’ve just heard the lady-blaminz too much and it’s often a smokescreen for a lot of unhelpful action or inaction on the part of a lot of men. Speaking to exactly WHAT a man can do and HOW MUCH he can help/assist/wave at child? Yeah, Ralph Hogaboom wrote the fucking book, why don’t you ask him how it’s going (I did. He said he gets a lot of “Thank yous” and smiles from mothers, and he’d be happy to give advice to men wanting to step up more).
Incidentally the derisive sexism aimed toward men who perform “traditional†women’s roles (everything from dishes to pushing a kid on a swing at a park) was experienced by us in a very real way the first year of our daughter’s life while Ralph stayed home with her and I worked-for-pay and has continued full-force since Ralph is so family-and-child active. This sexism was/is levied by both men and women and, like many constrictive gender roles containes an underbelly which is not only reductive to men but also perpetrates oppressive attitudes toward women and short-changes children. But perhaps most surprisingly to those who would lie back, shake their head and bemoan men “can’t” do this-or-that because of the Evil Sexism of Paranoid Women, Ralph experienced Sexism more often in his “favor”; that is, he received and continues to receive fawning attention, compliments, and accolades for being “Superdad” (while performing what he calls the “bare minimum standard” of child-care).
Sexism indeed.
Anyone reading here probably also knows how important it is to my husband and I that more men engage in educating themselves on so-called “Women’s Issues” (which are really Human Rights issues), and yes that includes non-rapists and self-proclaimed “I’m not part of the problem!” men. And hint, fellers: the first step is to read, read, read, read more, and listen, avoid mansplaining, and when you’ve read and read and read you might start talking, and – this part is important, expect to get schooled (and yeah, it hurts sometimes, I’ve been there re: straight-privilege, anti-racism, anti-imperialism, etc). If you’re here and give a damn that my husband and I give a damn about this lady-business, go ahead and read and read and read some more…
Or just Get Off My Lawn! and by that I mean my blog.
In other happy news, the twelfth Carnival of Feminist Parenting has been put up at Mother’s for Women’s Lib. Knowing Anji, it’s going to be chalk-full of awesomeness. I’ve read about a third of the pieces. Here are some that spoke to me:
“Is stay at home motherhood a class issue?” (UK blog)
Short answer: Yes.
“Kids: screw ‘Em” at Pandagon
Money quote: “Needless to say, Robert Rector considers himself ‘pro-life’. You’re precious to him on a cellular level, but once you start breathing and feeling and eating through anything but an umbilical cord, you’re on your own.”
“Yes, I Am a Feminist Housewife” by Natasha at Offbeat Mama
Dont worry, honey, you’ll grow out of wanting to self-apply that label the more you read feminist blogs who tell you how much you suck. Snark aside? She writes a lovely article.
What does feminism have to do with breastfeeding? at Breastfeeding Medicine.
Breastfeeding: a “choice” (which we can then skewer ALL women with, no matter what they choose) or a reproductive right?
Hi. Nice post. As a Dad I’d like to offer that I, for one, can’t see any value in even dealing with what society supposedly expects of me as a father. I’m sure ideas and stereotypes filter in, inevitably. But frankly I look at my kids and I’m honoured to do anything for them. It’s a pleasure to interact with them, I’m not busy analysing whether this task or that comes under my manly job description. Parenting is a zone defence operation – you deal with whatever comes your way! Maybe I’m in a minority, but most of my father friends feel much the same way, I believe.
on the other hand, other people’s kids…I’m singularly uninterested in, tbh. My wife isn’t. She’s fascinated with our friends’ kids development, other children we encounter, but unless they’re actively involved with one of mine, I’m not especially interested – don’t get me wrong, I’m not going to look the other way while someone abducts your kids, I just won’t be that keen to look at their art.
That said, I have felt the phenomenon you talk about. I’m happy to smile, wave and interact with other kids at the park, and if they show me something, I’ll look. I try to be as polite to them as I would an adult. But on one occasion my wife and I had our son on the swing and the little girl on the next swing was trying to get off and kind of got stuck. I was closer and my instinct was to help her. But I checked myself. I was seized with discomfort, anxiety and, yes, a kind of fear. I felt concern at how a parent or other bystander might feel about me helping this little girl, because of the man/molester issue. Her dress was kind of caught up, she was already fragile and upset, it all seemed too risky, somehow. So, I froze, looked at my wife, who understood immediately, and she helped her. I felt unhappy about it for some time afterwards.
And here’s the thing: by no means was it just ‘teh wimminz’ I was concerned about when I froze. It was the members of society around me, regardless of gender. In fact I feared a Dad might be, bizarrely,more protective and more inclined to read my actions wrongly. Seems this problem – and it is a problem, a terribly sad indictment – is, as with the ‘womens issues’ you mention, a human rights issue.
Thanks for your post. I came here via sociological images on contextxs.org, which I go to frequently and have done for some time. (I actually list ‘familiarity with feminist perspectives’ among my Competencies in my resume, which I feel OK about doing thanks to my reading there and elsewher. Hopefully it pays off with a good job one of these days!)
@Cp
Hello there, and thanks for your comment! I’m always happy when a newbie comes here and reads in good faith, esp. when I post on “controversial” social subjects.
I do think what you’re talking about – the “molester” fear all men are told to constantly self-examine for etc. – is very real. It isn’t levied against men ONLY by women, agreed. But to read the FRK sites and many others, the women are getting the snark and the blame. I write and read a lot of feminist/womanist blogs and have seen a variety of social ills blamed on the laydeez. By writing with precision about the wrongheadedness of this some people (like Stuart) seem to want to derail and say I disregard ANY sexism on women’s parts (yeah. No, I don’t).
I used to say unapologetically and not that long ago I liked my kids but no one else’s. Over time – and this is JUST me, not at all a prescriptive anecdote – I began to see how limited this view was. I spend more time with other people’s kids than ever – the neighbor kids seem to enjoy my house despite the none-television, non-video games aspect, maybe because I enjoy the company of kids more and more.
Oh, and for a little “girl with dress showing bloomers” bit, you should check back a few posts earlier and watch the Sesame Street intro videos… many in our culture are very touchy about this sort of thing. Unfortunately this can result in girls feeling very shame about their bodies from very early-on and actually pornifies children inappropriately because of adult error… but that post/rant is for another day.
Thanks again for weighing in and I’ll see you on SocImages! I love me that blog, it’s one of my feed reader blogs. Good luck on your job hunt!
Just out of curiosity, Kelly, where do you place the average male parent who refers to the time he spends at home with the kids while his (usually female) partner is out running errands, getting her hair done or other self-care, or just spending time with her friends, as ‘babysitting’?
I have heard this coming out of the mouths of some of my husband’s colleagues, as well as once or twice from my husband (before I schooled him on it) and I find it really hard to refrain from reminding them that what they are doing is being a dad, not a babysitter. So usually I open my big mouth and say something, which makes them get all defensive. My thing is, if you call it babysitting, you don’t think of it as part of being a parent but rather an intrusion into your other activities, especially given the fact that so many times the female parent has to ask “Would you mind taking the kids while I do X?” and is generally met with exasperation or frustration on the part of the male at having to take an active part in his child/children’s life.
I, as an at-home mom, am not a babysitter and don’t think of myself as such. So why is it that when I’m doing my job as a parent it’s not called babysitting but it is when a male parent does it, even though it’s the same damn thing? That’s where I’ve started in the war on sexism. Of course, there’s a whole lot more that follows – like the feigned inability to figure out what the children need in the diaper bag for an outing, or the refusal to change a diaper or dress the child. The latter doesn’t usually happen in our house anymore, but it has its moments.
Jen, I know your question was directed at Kelly, but I can’t help myself. 🙂
You made me smile because I’ve had similar experiences from the “man side”. I lost count of the number of times that Kylie and I have been out when some guy asks me, “So you have kid duty today?” or something to that effect. I even had one guy say, “She stick you with the kid today?” I usually respond, “I have her every day and I love it.” It may seem strange, but even the mom’s I meet seem to have a hard time processing it. (You mean you actually enjoy having your kids around?) Um…well, yes.
I’m just an all around weird guy though, so that may have something to do with it. I don’t like sports (I may go so far to say I hate sports) unless someone I personally know is playing (like my kids). Fast cars don’t impress me much. I prefer efficency and utility over speed and flash. If I won a brand new Ferrari or something, I would sell it and buy a nice truck, then take my family on vacation with the balance. But I digress.
I won’t even pretend that I’m some kind of superdad or whatever. My motives are selfish ones. I enjoy the company of my kids. I’ll pass on a trip to Vegas if my kids can’t go with me, and I LOVE Vegas (and yes, kids can have fun in Vegas). If I went without my 5-year-old, I would just be miserable the whole time wondering what she was doing. A night on the town is the most I can handle when it comes to “free time”. Sometimes I think I’m crazy or something because so many people don’t get it. It doesn’t matter though. If people think I’m crazy when I turn down a poker party because they don’t want kids there, that’s their problem. I’d rather play Junior Monopoly anyway.
My mind just wandered again to another topic kinda related to the post but not to your comment. Why is it that when I offer even the slightest bit of assistance to a mother, her man instantly goes on the defensive assuming that I’m making a move on his lady? Dude, I get it. Your lady is a catch. Please get over yourself. It’s like double reverse sexism or something.
@Kidsync: I can totally see where you’re coming from. One of my very good friends in grad school (we shared an office) was the main care-giver for his daughter after she was born because he had a fairly flexible schedule and his wife’s job paid more and had better insurance. It was a no-brainer. But additionally, he was crazy about his daughter and wanted to spend that time with her. We used to go out for coffee after teaching and she always came with us. He’s one of the people I used as a sounding board when I had my first child, simply because I felt like he did a great job of parenting his kids from the beginning.
I think that for some guys, parenting is a steeper learning curve than for others. And some of those on the steeper curve are REALLY slow learners. But aside from that, I think that there is a smaller subset of men who, aside from being on the steep curve, don’t get as much opportunity to be with their kids when they want to and can’t grasp that their partner who bears much of the responsibility of the childcare/rearing needs a break. That, like, this is actually work and we might need some time off to just be alone for a moment or two because we’re on 24/7. These are the men who need to realize that being alone with the children isn’t punishment but rather an opportunity to really get to know their kids.
In our family this issue is slightly more complex. My husband is in the army, in addition to starting his 4th year of medical school. He has to study a lot so he’s often not here (studying at a library or someplace quieter and less distracting;or on call at a hospital; or in the field). Before medical school he was an army PA and did 2 deployments to Iraq plus lots of field time. So, not much time to spend at home with the kids when he wants to. I think this happens to some guys in various fields of work -they just can’t get away from their work enough to spend quality time with their families and have any time to do their own things, so they feel an overwhelming need to take care of the personal things when they do.
This is also where the problem sort of falls in the laps of women. Because, generally speaking, we do tend to take the attitude that if the male partner can’t do it right we might as well do it ourselves and in doing so we perpetuate the inability of our partners to parent. I mean, if I tell you often enough that you can’t do it right, you might as well not try at all, right? I see this a lot with military wives. We get used to doing everything ourselves and knowing where everything is while our spouses are deployed. Then they come home after months and months and we get really frustrated with them for not knowing where the serving spoons are or how to buckle the kids in the car seats. And we’re not used to talking to any adults other than our friends, so we talk to our spouses like kids. So the men get pissed off and decide that they just won’t do anything because their wives won’t let them or do let them but constantly criticize the way things are done and the wives get frustrated because they were expecting to finally have the burden of doing everything lightened when the husband returned and instead it seems like they’ve got another child to take care of.
It’s a complicated thing. I don’t know the extent to which this holds true for non-military families, but I can imagine that it’s similar. To counter-act this I’ve had to remind myself that my husband won’t do things the same way that I do them. I try to show him how I want certain things done. Like washing diapers. I had to go out of town for 10 days a couple of years ago and left our younger daughter with him. She wore cloth diapers so I had to write down detailed instructions on how to wash the diapers. He has kept the instructions on a note card and when I need him to do the diapers he refers to it. He doesn’t have it memorized and probably never will, so I’ve learned not to expect that. I’ve also learned to not criticize the way he does things if it gets them done as well as if I had done them. And I’ve learned that because I’ve always been the one to get the diaper bag packed up before an outing that I have to ask him to do it and tell him what to put in (other than the obvious) because he just doesn’t have the practice at doing it. He doesn’t read my mind in this area.
As for the men that get all defensive, my theory is that maybe they know they’re being dickheads and they’re afraid that if you set an example of how they could behave, their woman will go off on them about their crappy behavior. In other words, they’re afraid you’ll make them look bad and they’ll get in trouble.
@Jen: All of that is great information. Well said! Being able to step back and review the situation and then objectively resolve it in a constructive way is absolute relationship gold.
I very much appreciate your husband’s service in both the military and medicine. He must be one ambitious guy.
I hope you get the breaks that you need. We all need a break from work, even if we love what we do.